This means that the measurement of your power at most deviates by 2% from what you actually pedal. It’s been perfect for us. Well, that’s tough on so many levels. Hi Ray, Later on in the post I talk about multi-user considerations and swapping positions. I was pretty much just the roadies looking to shelter from the wind and rain over the winter. Cobblestones (hard) They’re finding out the same thing Tacx found out, but on a year timeline: Getting manufacturing up to speed on these bikes is incredibly difficult. That’s a massive difference to the feeling of the bike. Having a bit of play there as well, will not make the strength calculation easier…!? One newbie aspect that may not have been discussed, or that I may have missed: How is what one might call the “stability” of sitting on one of these bikes relatively to, say, Tacx Neo 2? It’s not about Switzerland there – I just don’t really have a strong opinion either way on either feature. I will explain this to you in this article. Wahoo KICKR Bike: $3,499 – Shipping from November 2019 (extremely limited distribution), European (GBP/EUR) Pricing & Availability, Tacx NEO Bike: £2,299/2,599€ – Already available Easily. At the moment all the bikes seem to have some small issues, maybe Wattbike have improved the feel on the Gen 1.5 device. Would be cool if someone could make it work. Does anyone know if it’s possible to buy a seatpost and/or stem/handlebar to fit a normal road bike on a trainer that has horizontal quick adjustment rails like the ones on these bikes? If you want to compactly store the trainer and transport it easily, choose the Wahoo KICKR. The trick there is using straight height is a bad indicator, since things like leg length matter just as much. Reviews : Reviews for the NEO are sort of a mixed bag, people are really happy with the noise level and accuracy, but others have had issues with quality control and tech support. $5,000CAD is a hard pill to swallow when I could get a beater frame and Kickr Core for about half that. If it’s the Peloton crowd, I’m not sure how they compete on the software side with what Peloton is offering. the brilliance of it would be that we can put the whole thing then on the saris platform and have some natural movement going. However, for something more substantial – you definitely will. I believe the Kickr Bike uses a standard seat post – 27.2mm if I’m not mistaken. Essentially it’s like the Philips Hue of bike lighting. I think that’s right. Cancelled it last week as Tacx weren’t able to supply or give a delivery date. And to compliment that, here’s The Girl’s (my wife’s) list. Looks like I need a new trainer: Wahoo KICKR CORE or Tacx Neo 2T Quote | Reply. Of course, sizing it to you is going to vary a bit based on your exact fit. Still, it’s super cool. There isn’t a way to set up multiple bikes for any of these companies. I am not sure how big “our” group is, but personally I do not think it is very big, honestly. I’ve got my 5ft 10 year old (he’s a big lad) setup on the Kickr bike with no problem, tonnes of saddle height remaining and saddle offset has 2cm spare too, could fit someone slightly smaller me thinks. Though admittedly our sample sizes are small. Correct, sorry, database didn’t commit the changes. Whereas the current Tacx and Wahoo bikes I have only have ‘rulers’ on one side. Then reality set in with how many more hours of work that’d be. Will cancel, what a bad customer experience and shady practice. Either I’m doing something wrong, riding in the wrong place, or there’s a problem with mine. Beyond that, the quality of the tiny little washers that go into the crank arms is questionable, though doesn’t really impact day to day usage. Take for example myself and my wife. All three of these bikes are great, and you’d likely be happy with any of them. But it’s going to take time, just like it took an extra year for Tacx to sort all their things out. How about the cassette? No interest at all for me but I’m clearly not their market. As such, it’s pretty darn quiet. That means that you can’t simply pair your Garmin, Wahoo, Suunto, Polar, or whatever device to record the power as a power meter passively, such as to capture training load. “you can’t be suggesting riding an untethered bike on an inclined surface and riding an inclined but fixed bike can be same can you?”. Your brain still knows it’s indoors. The dude from support sent me links to articles about changing cassette on Neo2. The thought is to just have the Atom in a dedicated space for Zwift for the sheer convenience. I swim, bike and run. the LBS is still waiting for their tacx orders to come through. It’s a dramatically better ride experience than I think is possible on any bike combo. That’s tomorrow’s project. I was commenting on how I thought it was pretty much a useless gimmick on a bike trainer. However, when it’s paired with errors and functionality loss – that’s not good. It’s an so-so-OK software but ligthyears from Zwift and Tacx video quality. I would call it “inherent by design” rather than “on purpose”. That console has a width of 60mm at the handlebar point, though expands out slowly to 140mm at the edge of the M&M holder. 2014 OG Kickr on its way out. From a physical change standpoint, on average it’ll take you about 20-30 seconds to change the configuration for all changeable settings (combined) for either the Wahoo or Wattbike. I am back on my Kickr, which after riding the NEO Bike for that short time feels like going back to fly coach after taking your personal jet. Just want to make sure Clever is legit with the Tacx Neo bike, this is a company you deal with, correct? So that the seat and handlebars could easily be adjusted fore/aft for different users? Maybe it’s an expected wear item. DC Rainmaker 2019 swim, bike, run, and general gear list. The feeling on this is pretty darn good, and that ignores the cobblestone and such replication I talk about later in the ‘Party Tricks’ section. Zitieren. I don’t believe that’s the case at all. In summary wait until version 2 of all of these next year. And here’s how the shifters look, which mirror that of real bike shifters: Now, the one downside of the Wahoo shifting system is that the display is in a really bad place. RN. You have the money and that is the end of the story. I am not joking. Well, Tacx had pretty good shot a being Numero Uno software wise. Additionally, it’s only available in the Netherlands for the foreseeable future while they sort out scaling up. The thing I like most is the simplicity of having the machine set up and ready to go (assuming my ‘head unit’ is charged!). I can’t get road feel on my Tacx Neo Bike setup so I assume I do not have the correct combination of settings. Though, what I was aiming for there was something app-integrated with the setup process. So we’ll try again. The NEO2 ‘sway’ is actually a feature that most people like. IRL we have lots a movement from the bike. I was on Canyon’s site yesterday looking at tri bikes, and astounded with how expensive they are, even by Canyon standards. onkeljoni Aktives Mitglied . My NEO2 burned out some electronics after 18 months (and out of warranty). As you said, 100 bikes is incredibly small. I actually think 5’2” could be a challenge on this bike. Oder ist das einerlei? ... DC Rainmaker has said in his opinion the problems have all been sorted. I always drape a sweat towel over the tri-bar pads to ensure no sweat gets anywhere near those bolts. So it should just work with an iPad (mini), Bluetooth connection and selecting the controllable trainer option? The cool thing about smart bikes is the (theoretical) ability to simulate anything. Registriert 28 Oktober 2015 Beiträge 1.886 Punkte Reaktionen 450. Probably a similar issue with the other bikes. That’s just massive on that single pivot. Said differently: It’s simpler. I think it’s worth considering as it’s a cheaper option than the Tacx and Wahoo bikes and you get ‘proper shifting’! I’m headed to Paris – what do you recommend for training or sightseeing? Their app looks really good for me as all I want to do is ERG sessions. All three of these bikes support ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart, however, not all three of these bikes operate in the same way in that manner. And less maintenance. You should check out my videos. But it’s not entirely black and white. The only hope you have there is that your thighs gap enough by the time your leg length cross over the top-tube. Yes. I already have a Quarq powermeter. Thanks for the review. Didn’t look terribly difficult. We will keep Kettler World Tours”…! The Wahoo KICKR & Saris H3 top out at 20%, and the Elite Drivo at 24%. The only challenge though is that the display in the Atom X isn’t super powerful, and isn’t capable of running Zwift at this time. Quick adjustment levers are only for seat and handlebar height. It actually depends on which connectivity option you’re using. Shane Miller aka GPLama has youtube reviews that show the min/max dimensions for both of these. I must have missed this in the reviews. There’s no fussing with mounting the bike to the trainer – it’s just on and standing by. Can any of these simulate oval chainrings? I've got a large log cabin on order, already have a treadmill and a thru axle bike. Maybe you can have Wahoo to confirm they have build that in on purpose (and not due to not being durable). Stupid as it may sound, the tilt feature of the Kickr does make Zwift a lot more interesting and fun. The Wahoo uses a standard 27.2mm seat post. Ray, I think its time for you and I to play let’s make deal…. My whole family can use it, reconfiguring it quickly to their size within seconds. It will rotate 180 degrees, but the clamp doesn’t close fully around the rail–even if it did, the distance between the rails on the stock saddle, the saddle I replaced it with, or presumably any other standard saddle is also narrower than the width of the rails. Can it rotate 180 degrees and still clamp the saddle rails without affecting how the slide works and without touching underneath the saddle? On the Tacx bike we slammed the seat post but this was not quite low enough for her. I have had the climb module. Ultimately, for both of these companies and these features – this is really on Zwift (or other apps, but mostly Zwift) to support steering. Maybe there is the AtomX the possibility to transfer the Wattbike display with an AppleTV on a 32 inch TV. However, these differences are minimal. Can you clarify what the gearing corresponds to in both 22 & 11 speed. I was going to hang fire until Black Friday, but it seems Watt Bike don’t have the need for sales and just do a ‘specials’ on matts, bottles etc each month. Initially I was going to have the video review publish at the same time as the written review, but then reality set in. I’ve had a pre order of the Tacx Bike for over a year in the UK and in all that time I have not received a definitive answer as to whether the Bike will be suitable for both me and my wife. In a studio setting how great would it be to just buy an adapter and bring your own saddle to sessions. In the case of simulation (aka slope) mode, the Tacx NEO 2T can simulate from 0% to 25% incline – which is frankly way more than your legs ever want to deal with. A nice trick is to buy a spare saddle clamp, and clamp it on the seat post just above your regular one. There are other surfaces too – like the wooden planked piers/bridges in Zwift, or even the gravel. https://gearmashers.com/wahoo-kickr-vs-tacx-neo-trainer-2017-2018 And probably a lot of people who just spend money on parts. I purchased a Wahoo Kickr 2019 trainer from a local bike shop last month and the owner was kind enough to give me the option to return it once the Kickr bike is available for full credit towards the Kickr Bike. For an indoor bike training with the most realistic resistance and seamless response to applications, choose between the Wahoo KICKR Power Trainer and the Tacx Neo Smart. Fit was good for me and for one of my friends, didnt have the feeling that I was on the limit of the seatpost. I confirmed with Wahoo this morning it’s on purpose and the design of the hardware accounts for that. What was the timeframe for delivery. Looking at the ratios inside the Tacx, it’s clear they use a pretty high gearing ratio to make the flywheel spin faster than the cranks. Bingo! Wahoo KICKR Bike: Price TBA – Shipping in 2020. Thanks so much. recorded? All for well under $3K value. And below all that is the singular USB port. The reviews are interesting but don’t give a real winner between the two. Yeah, the challenge is that it’s targetted for commercial usage only, not consumer. The tacx is super quiet, especially shifting. Here are three galleries of those fit elements, one for each bike: All three bikes use standard saddle rails, so you can put any saddle you want on there, and do standard saddle rail adjustments just like on a normal bike. Even for a local US machine shop, perhaps users just provide their own saddle, handlebars. It is my first smart trainer or bike. But since I’m pretty happy with the way this specific section came out, I spliced it out to into a short 46 second video you can watch here. Because the trainer doesn’t come with a cassette, you will need to factor that into the overall cost. I simulated a ride today, one that I originally did on my gravel bike in the mountains on Wednesday, using my 830 on my STAC Halcyon, and it came out as a “virtual ride”. ... Wahoo KICKR Tacx Neo 2T Wahoo KICKR Core Tacx Flux S I like the “feel” of the KICKR more than the Neo – but both are top-notch trainers. Criteria: My main criteria is quiet operation and based on DC Rainmaker(DCR) both are virtually silent apart from the drivetrain. When I have got it wrong on my road bike it has caused me a lot of pain and expenses. For me, solely based on these reviews and other second hand accounts, the Tacx seems to strike the right balance/compromise between the two ends of the spectrum. trainer. GPlama reviews on youtube are worth a watch as well. Time will really tell here. shipped (second batch) to my dealer end of October, then beginning With the Neo Smart you hear the coil of the magnet system, while with the KICKR you hear the flywheel turning. If it’s not, it could be a problem…. This seems so doable. Sorry, database didn’t commit that change. But when it comes to the Wahoo and Tacx bikes, everything appears super sealed up. Ideally with a dedicated controller, but I think we’re now to the point that I’d settle for an iphone/android app made for normal folks to be able to SUPER EASILY fire up FOR FREE and get some basic spin bike functionality. How are they put together? It will never be the same. Just a matter of when. None of this propriety stuff here. Apart from availability issues, If magnum’s price was the price of these indoor smart bikes, it would have been the ultimate indoor training platform. Are you willing to review or test beta products? Which then gets into two basic questions: A) How big of a market for $3,000+ indoor bikes? And Tacx says that they’ll be rolling out other countries pretty quickly with the Tacx NEO Bike. So, it’s worth at least noting somewhere in this overly long post that you can throw your own disco party. Through focus, my score is now consistently in the target zone, and I believe that this has transferred the the road. See, while the Tacx Bike is thick, it only extends below the saddle, so for some people they’ll never touch at all because their legs extend forward beyond that point. MKirk. $3K to $10K bikes. I’ve divided up this entire post into a brief overview section, followed by sections for each aspect of the bike. 2) Saddle position (forward/back) One can guess market is there. Each of those trainers will give you good service, with accurate power and good integration into a smart training environment. . And some of them might not physically work for you. But no matter, Tacx could produce a trainer that was a tenth the price of its competitors and twice as good and still people would be queuing to worship at the church of Wahoo. With that – hopefully you found this interesting, thanks for reading! Yes, it’s a bigger step than all the steps of the larger group set, but practically it’s better given the shifter design. I logged my first and probably last few minutes on the Neo Bike. All three bikes offer measurement markers in centimeters for all measurements. Whereas the Tacx and Wahoo bikes will. They see it as a prototype of sorts, and are selling it that way (for example, they don’t have certifications). The KICKR from Wahoo Fitness and NEO from Tacx have ruled the indoor smart trainers market for a number of years. Exactly…! Instead, these tables focus on the major specs between them. What would be the best way of transferring my race bike TT setup over to an Atom (ordered last week)? You use this trainer without mains power if you want. Again, down the road Wahoo says they’re going to offer some sort of integrated aerobar accessory kit, but there’s no pricing/availability/pictures of that at this time. Registriert 15 Juli 2016 Beiträge 1.551 Punkte Reaktionen 1.806. The below video does not capture audio from that snippet, but rather just regular riding. Yeah, I thought about that about 10 seconds after I pressed publish. I don’t know what crank length was at the time so there might be scope to gain a few mm there. By that it means that as opposed to units such as the Wahoo KICKR and the Cycleops Hammer, which use a belt to drive a freewheel, the cassette on the Neo directly drives the motor unit that Tacx uses to apply resistance.. I haven’t taken any apart, so I can’t quite say. The handle on the device also makes it easier to transport and store. Very few people who don’t ride at all will be buying one of these right now. For Tacx bikes, it’s not as big an issue because you can see it on the display in front of you. After all, it was Zwift themselves that pushed so heavily for these companies to not only create indoor bikes but also create bikes capable of steering. Reach should be fine, but leg length might be right at the limit. The bike is low-maintenance and is easy to set-up. Article très interessant,j’avais jusqu’à ce jour un Kettler Race S et, pour le remplacer j’avais prévu un Tacx Néo smart Do you feel that the production issues you have highlighted are still relevant? Wattbike must really not care about sales- I wanted to discuss by order and see if they would be willing to give me something extra (due to no discounts policy and Black Friday coming); Instead, I got an order cancellation email LOL!!! There’s no timeframe for when they’ll start broadcasting power as a standalone signal. I have built an extensive list of my most frequently asked questions. The video is today’s project. It's no longer possible to log in via Facebook or Google. Mixed feelings…. When people talk about ‘ride feel’ on indoor trainers or bikes, it’s essentially looking at how well it replicates inertia of outdoors. Hehe, I am actually trying to solve the same dilema. Hi Ray, It’s much quieter than the Kickr (see DC Rainmaker’s video for comparison). Thanks as always for your work! Well, Tacx had pretty good shot at being Numero Uno software wise. I think this was the case until very recently, certainly I can hook my Garmin up to it and it reports, power, cadence and speed, all saveable into Garmin Connect and then able to be pushed wherever you like after so not an issue anymore. As for these bikes (Tacx/Wattbike) – nope, they’re all rock-solid. And companies must account for returns and servicing within their margins, so they can’t just assume all bikes will make only a one-way trip. but they claim compatibility with most cycling apps. Hopefully that makes sense. It also includes a brief explainer on how exactly I did the recording/setup. For me, it’s beyond what I’d accept from a $3,500 bike. Hopefully by winter 2020 all teething problems will have been resolved and we’ll have a bit more user feedback to go on, Ok so here is the problem I have every time with these static bike setups–. They replicated the vibration between your legs, but atop that, they replaced the not-so-natural bike-handlebars shifting designs of Tacx and Wattbike, with actual road-bike style shifters. There will be compromises. I am about 6′ 3″. I clearly remember how I had to transition from indoor to outdoor back in the days where I came from my Kettler. You can even do it while riding. So yeah – back to the start. Below are the most popular. For noise, you’re assumption is correct. Keeping their Top-End Product in a closed system might be a tactic / or maybe it just wouldn’t make sense in wahoo’s eyes to ride such a machine with icline etc. It’s a dumb trainer but the air driven fan feels exactly the same as riding IRL. It doesn’t feel right. My wife tried it when we were at last year’s DCR Open House. Oh, that’s right. My outside bikes are always ready to go. These were put in place for eventual Zwift steering, once Zwift gets around to opening that up to 3rd parties. The full chart is in the comments section of DCR’s Neo bike review. Thanks a lot for your answer and enjoy your weekend! Most companies that do this sort of apps tend to do lots of elevation smoothing and normalizing, which isn’t done when you just take a file as-is and re-ride it. Tacx Bike: 170/172.5/175mm However, Wahoo’s proposed solution would be more functional than others, as Wahoo actually has two auxiliary ports near the front of the bike for expansion, inclusive of shifting from the aerobars. Registriert 9 Juni 2014 Beiträge 1.003 Punkte Reaktionen 347. Here’s a complete spec comparison between the three bikes. What bike is the best for her? Just like last time I did the power meter pedal shoot-out post, this thing kinda got out-of-control long. I suspect we’ll find out in a few years. On the Tacx Bike, I think if you’re getting a newer unit (which, you would because they’re all sold out otherwise), the chance of an issue is highly diminished. Now, the brute-force way of determining whether or not you’d rub is simply take out a piece of cardboard and cut it to the measurement above, and then stick it on your bike and see if you hit it a bunch. “Snowing” wasnt such a big storm for me, but with this price I wasnt expecting any. Apart from that, the price should move around 5000 €, if the AtomX is ever sold to private. I would assume that the movement on the trainer would probably be analogous to the movement of a bike on the road, but without actually riding it myself, I can’t rule out that possibility that the flex might fight the rider a bit. Enjoy, and thanks for stopping by! And there are often suitable higher spec second hand bikes with little use available on online auction sites as I found. Whereas on the drivetrain they’re on par (KB). Both are very pricey, but if you can afford it (and reckon you'll get use out of it) it sounds awesome. But this section is about cool fun things – not critical things. Der (ältere) Kickr Core ist aber fast genauso gut und viel günstiger. My delivery took 5 weeks in the UK. All three bikes offer the following adjustments, 1) Saddle height (up/down) Wahoo KICKR Bike: This does not include any aerobars, but you can add your own. It’s gonna take a few years. I’d basically gone for a normal rear end but an integrated front fork/floor stand with an extended steerer tube to allow for the fitting of a regular stem and bar for adjustability. Nonetheless, my money will be on a Neo Bike 3.0 two years from now. They are indeed different for each bike, and technically are separate features. Ironic, isnt it? Ray, I found a long thread on the Garmin Forum about why this is so. Wahoo Smart Hometrainer sammenligning. Finally, the below audio was shot in a single successive take. Relatively quiet at low speed and while keeping your legs still, Wahoo Fitness and ao Zwift, TrainerRoad, Sufferfest, KinoMap, BKool Simulator, Tacx Trainer and ao Zwift, TrainerRoad, Sufferfest, KinoMap, BKool Simulator. As is probably clear – Tacx is the clear winner here. Note though that the expansion, as you can see from this image rises over time – so it’s actually not equal to the handlebar height until roughly 22cm from the handlebar tube centerline. There are two buttons per shifter, so they effectively go up/down the chainrings/cassette. However, none of the bikes at this time support shifting (or any other functions) from TT bars. Merci vorab. Not easy to move, shift to one side, etc. Wanna hear how they compare? nicht bahnbrechend, für den Neukunden aber interessant. Some of them have to be shipped as freight. we also had Racer S. KWT is quite Ok, but definitely not the same experience. Wahoo started shipping about two weeks ago. Though, many of the nuances of above aren’t necessarily captured in the tables below. I am looking to upgrade from a low end wheel on smart trainer to either a Tacx Neo 2T or Wahoo Kicker V5. First, just generally speaking it’s louder (though, still at basically library whisper most times). Hardly. Tacx Bike Shifting: The Tacx Bike does not allow any configuration of the shifting to mimic different manufacturers’ shifting elements. I have nothing to compare to it, but I am very happy with the purchase. Smarte Indoortrainer im Test: Tacx Neo Smart 2 und Neo 2T Smart Konstantin Rohé am 06.10.2019 Wir haben die beiden neuesten Versionen des smarten High End-Rollentrainer getestet. What about a rocking emulator like this link to bikeacces.com. :-/ having tried their smart bikes in Gyms it seems they might have more experience in designing and manufacturing hardware that is easily adjustable and durable. Any plans to get hold of a Wattbike Atom Next Generation. Time will tell where and how they end up. For comparison sake, a mid range treadmill runs 3500 as well. I’ve sorted it all by world geography, in an attempt to make it easy to figure out where I’ve been. However, what is far more likely is that we’ll see other entrants. August 2020 in Road buying advice. The reason I have contacted Tacx/Garmin directly was to get the replacement. Hey Ray, just a copy editing note — at the beginning of the article, you say you’re going to refer to the “Wahoo Bike” as “Wahoo Bike” but halfway through the article you start calling it the “KICKR bike.” Just a heads up of something you might want to edit for consistency. Whereas if you remove those effects and focus just on inertia, it’s a very solid 2nd place. It’s how it knows how difficult to make the trainer gradient. Shane was pretty hard on it but Ray seems to be more positive. While smoke is less than ideal, it’s often just a case of oils burning off from manufacturing. Ersteller moomn09; Erstellt am 8 Oktober 2019 ••• Weitere Who Replied? I’d love to know if the changes to the resistance system have impacted ride feel which seemed to come out the bottom in your testing. Posted 3 years ago. 13 February 2020 11:51 . Equipment. I was really hoping that this comparison would help me make the decision but the summary which essentially suggests to wait for the second version of these bikes seems to suggest that I’m better off keeping the Kickr 2019 smart trainer…. All fixed! I would much rather spend that money on a new bike/components/wheels/clothing, etc. The Tacx Neo 2 Smart currently tops our round-up of the best turbo trainers, but there’s not much to separate the Neo 2 and the equally excellent Wahoo KICKR. Wooden boards. So, what if you’ve got multiple users in your household? Pittsburgh. SMARTCap: TACX NEO 2 vs NEO 1, Zwift World Change, New dual ANT+/BLE HRM from Garmin and more… You may also like. + Tacx NEO…Do you know how high is the bottom bracket for each of these? Below that tablet is a display that’s leveraged differently depending on which apps your in. Once you add in fore aft adjustability for seat and bars, custom made framing that’s solid enough to last, adjustable cranks, and decently aligned bb and derailleur hanger, I found cost was going to be way too high to justify the project.